Collusion?

[Prawney]

This is actually pretty easy to explain. As discussed many times already talking about your hand when others are involved is a major no no.

Here is one of many instances of what a google search for "poker etiquette" will produce.

Poker Etiquette: Basic Poker Rules and Table Manners

2. Don't Talk About Your Cards While the Hand is Still Going On

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google "poker collusion" ... one of the first hits

Poker Collusion

The most common form of cheating online is called ?collusion?. Colluders work in teams to either bet other players out of the pot, share information about what cards they each have, or to ?chip dump? to one another.

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If you know two cards that are dead and they are no help to you then you gain an edge... If I needed one of 4 eights or one of 4 fours to make a straight I'd love to know that 2 tens were dead.

This proves nothing. So doing 1 thing that colluders do just proves they were colluding. Thats like saying DL in the NFL usually weigh over 300llbs. So when i see someone 300llbs+ i can disregard all the other information i have and just assume he plays as a DL in the NFL. I know its stupid but that seems to be the arguements we are going for today.

People seem to be missing my point. Mrfury said what hand he held. I agree with everyone that he cant/shouldnt do this. Normally his hand is ruled dead. Gimme didnt really do anything wrong. He indulged in table talk and while borderline all casino's/ card rooms have diff rules when it comes to what kinda talk they allow. You could even say he acted out of turn and his verbal action was binding, but since mrfury shoved the action changed and so he isnt held to his verbal action anymore.

Ive never said that there wasnt some kind of foul play in the hand. But seriously with all the information available you cant say these guys were colluding against bpm. BPM is in this thread calling for bans and what not. When ur in the casino and somone flips up there hand my mistake and u see his cards do you stand up and scream "FLOOR", Then tell the floor you want everyone at the table kicked out and banned for colluding because they all see what hand he held and will use that info against you.

Fury made a simple mistake. He even apologised for it. Yet your still on a mission to prove this was collusion against you.

[bigphatmike]

Mrfury did not want to call, he opened then gimme and i had postion on him, after gimme re raises then i shove, he doesnt really want to call thats why he tells his hand outloud to gimme. Gimme then pulled another level of dickishness by stating that he would fold if he called , After stating his hand outlod to gimme and I while this is the biggest pot of the Poker table, Fury then shoves because he now knows he has gimme beat.

[Prawney]

Mrfury did not want to call, he opened then gimme and i had postion on him, after gimme re raises then i shove, he doesnt really want to call thats why he tells his hand outloud to gimme. Gimme then pulled another level of dickishness by stating that he would fold if he called , After stating his hand outlod to gimme and I while this is the biggest pot of the Poker table, Fury then shoves because he now knows he has gimme beat.

See that makes no sense. Because if fury was so afraid of gimme and didnt want to call. Then when gimme said he would fold if fury calls, fury would have just called instead of shoving. No reason to shove because like i said in a cash game like this it is more likely gimme is angling fury then colluding against you. So to me this pretty much shows the fury didnt use what gimme said in making his decision

As for gimme its pretty obvious that he didnt let knowing fury had 10,10 change his actions as he called anyways.

Those were the 2 things that were said. And considering neither used any of the info given up when making their decisions its pretty clear they werent conspiring against you.

[bigphatmike]

See that makes no sense. Because if fury was so afraid of gimme and didnt want to call. Then when gimme said he would fold if fury calls, fury would have just called instead of shoving. No reason to shove because like i said in a cash game like this it is more likely gimme is angling fury then colluding against you. So to me this pretty much shows the fury didnt use what gimme said in making his decision

As for gimme its pretty obvious that he didnt let knowing fury had 10,10 change his actions as he called anyways.

Those were the 2 things that were said. And considering neither used any of the info given up when making their decisions its pretty clear they werent conspiring against you.

Gimme had open ended straight draw aka the nuts for him, hes never folding after re raising.. Fury KNew he wasnt folding ffs lol you obviously didnt read the chat log... Since now he knew that gimme was weak, he knew he had him beat at least that is why he reshoved.

[bigphatmike]

Gimme had open ended straight draw aka the nuts for him, hes never folding after re raising.. Fury KNew he wasnt folding ffs lol you obviously didnt read the chat log... Since now he knew that gimme was weak, he knew he had him beat at least that is why he reshoved.

@Prawney : thats an easy level when you state your hand then the other guy replies weak... He now knows he has the intital re raiser beat.

[Prawney]

Gimme had open ended straight draw aka the nuts for him, hes never folding after re raising.. Fury KNew he wasnt folding ffs lol you obviously didnt read the chat log... Since now he knew that gimme was weak, he knew he had him beat at least that is why he reshoved.

You got me wrong. Im not defending cheaters. Because this is a case of you exagerating and making it like they were colluding against you, which from all the information available they werent. You are too close to the situation and arent looking at the hand objectively. If fury was so afraid of gimme he would have folded, definately wouldnt have shoved. What gimme said is more of an angleshoot, like saying something along the lines of " whatever u bet im calling". As a "true" and "real" poker player you should know not to take anyones word at the table as the truth so why would fury takes gimme word for the truth here.

The only thing wrong in the whole hand was mr fury saying what hand he had. But it didnt have an effect on what gimme did so its not collusion. What gimme did was an angle not colluding.

Your posts are almost showing that it couldnt be collusion because you just said that gimme had the draw that was the nuts for him. So he was never folding. And according to you what gimme said is the reason fury went all in. So in your own words Gimme had "the nuts for him" and his talk made fury shove. So going by what ur saying it looks like gimme got a guy to shove against him while holding the nuts. But that cant be right because i thought they were colluding against you???

[BoostMyBR]

Never discuss cards in the hand, that is just plain cheating. So technically, I would consider it cheating. It's not far from colluding though.

[NascarFanSS]

I believe there is such a thing as unintentional collusion which would hold a completely different definition than the one zab stated and the client would be the most likely place for it as these guys talk about a lot of hands in there to try and throw each other off..

gimme didnt even do anything but react to fury trying to get him to fold .. in the big picture that prolly helped mike out .. but what fury did was no better than colluding imo because thats exactly what he was trying to do .. change the outcome of the action with his words regardless of whether or not it was in private like a real act of collusion would have been done

[bigphatmike]

Seriously , i cant beleive a mod defends cheaters so much, i guess hes your friend irl or something. theswe two ppl are the definition on PO scum, them and all the underage and bashers should be booted

[TrueOC]

its fucked up but it can go both ways, if it happened to me id be pissed but its w.e....no disscusion should be going on while a hand is in progress 100% not allowed but w.e