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# Thread: Learning the Ropes "outs' "odds"

1. ## Learning the Ropes "outs' "odds"

Learning the Ropes "outs' "odds"

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Hey Everyone,
I've recently played my first table game (last month) and I have been hooked ever since. But I want to be smart about my bankroll so I have decided to learn a heck of a lot more strategy. I have grasped the majority of the strategy but I'm still a little fuzzy about "outs" and "calculating odds." I am not mathematically inclined and was wondering if anyone had any easier methods to calculate outs and odds and when is it necessary to do so. Thanks!!

2. i use the method of x4 its not exact but its the easiest and very close. if you google it you will get a way better understanding than i can give. but it is really simple. and you should always calculate your outs.. unless you're holding the nuts, which isn't often lol.

3. also a great free poker training channel on youtube is gripsed. check it out, it will help a lot.

4. In a nut shell if you have 8 outs on the flop:

You have 4 x 8 = 32% to hit one of your outs.

On the turn:

You have 2 x 8 = 16% to hit one of your outs.

These are rough approximations. Been a long time but I think the exact math is like (>2.1x) per street.

As far as odds, these are usually represented in ratios. (e.g. 3to1 and 8to1)

So if you have 8 outs on the flop you need to be getting better than 2to1 to call.

NOTE: This straightforward math is for limit hold-em. In no-limit hold-em you would want to consider the amount of money your opponent has left behind in his/her stack. This concept is called "implied odds" and it revolves around the idea that you may be more willing to take slightly worse odds on a draw considering if you hit it against that particular opponent he/she may pay you off an amount sufficient to hedge taking a SLIGHT disadvantage. This concept applies more to cash games than tournaments, but some late stages of very large tourneys also provide stacks that allow for such consideration.

5. For such a seemingly simple game, a lot of math is involved in poker. As you play more, it will become easier to understand.

6. buy any beginner-intermediate book available. you will get enough info to get you started

7. I think it's not worth the time in these stakes, with the amount bad players. The math goes out the window against 3 or 4 idiots raising and going all in constantly. And how does anyone know how many outs are out there, no one knows if your cards are dead or not. It'a all assumptions.

8. I think too many new players think "outs" are what they see on TV. You gotta remember TV see's all the players cards and has an exact calculation of outs.

When you are on your own in a 9 seat game, Outs is nearly impossible to calculate like TV.. especially when those outs are mid-low level cards. (I can put someone on face cards, pockets, etc when they bet to the turn).

But if 6 people fold preflop, That's 12 cards (out of 52) that just got taken out of the equation.

9. There have been times when I have flipped up cards and had more outs then I expected and there have been times when I have had less than I though (or hoped) but a good player has a decent Idea of what there odds are and whether or not there play is (whether it wins or not) a profitable one.

10. Originally Posted by gundacker
I think too many new players think "outs" are what they see on TV. You gotta remember TV see's all the players cards and has an exact calculation of outs.

When you are on your own in a 9 seat game, Outs is nearly impossible to calculate.. especially when those outs are mid-low level cards. (I can put someone on face cards, pockets, etc when they bet to the turn).

But if 6 people fold preflop, That's 12 cards (out of 52) that just got taken out of the equation.
You don't subtract or do anything to the cards taken out of the equation unless you actually know what the value of those cards are. As far as the math goes they aren't taken out of the equation.

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