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  1. #1
    Danghis Khan dk12's Avatar
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    Nov 2012
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    2,025

    Knew he was bluffing !! This is was u do to donks

    FOR A GUY WHO CHECK RASIES LOW FLUSH DRAWS .. OR MINRAISES WITH AIR...

    Game started at: 2014/4/23 22:30:31
    Game ID: 276051595 600/1200 BIG10 - $12,500 GTD, Table 16 (Hold'em)
    Seat 6 is the button
    Seat 1: 1RealSickJoker (27646).
    Seat 2: Mike2Bill (28114).
    Seat 3: silentsam27 (67981).
    Seat 4: pokermom218 (125714).
    Seat 5: Bzzzzzz (12792).
    Seat 6: KnobEnd (38878).
    Seat 7: LordLeon (30280).
    Seat 8: Hypnotik (46773).
    Seat 9: CashoutCurse22 (32011).
    Player LordLeon ante (120)
    Player Hypnotik ante (120)
    Player CashoutCurse22 ante (120)
    Player 1RealSickJoker ante (120)
    Player Mike2Bill ante (120)
    Player silentsam27 ante (120)
    Player pokermom218 ante (120)
    Player Bzzzzzz ante (120)
    Player KnobEnd ante (120)
    Player LordLeon has small blind (600)
    Player Hypnotik has big blind (1200)
    Player LordLeon received a card.
    Player LordLeon received a card.
    Player Hypnotik received a card.
    Player Hypnotik received a card.
    Player CashoutCurse22 received a card.
    Player CashoutCurse22 received a card.
    Player 1RealSickJoker received card: [Ks]
    Player 1RealSickJoker received card: [As]
    Player Mike2Bill received a card.
    Player Mike2Bill received a card.
    Player silentsam27 received a card.
    Player silentsam27 received a card.
    Player pokermom218 received a card.
    Player pokermom218 received a card.
    Player Bzzzzzz received a card.
    Player Bzzzzzz received a card.
    Player KnobEnd received a card.
    Player KnobEnd received a card.
    Player CashoutCurse22 folds
    Player 1RealSickJoker raises (2400)
    Player Mike2Bill calls (2400)
    Player silentsam27 folds
    Player pokermom218 is timed out.
    Player pokermom218 folds
    Player Bzzzzzz folds
    Player KnobEnd folds
    Player LordLeon folds
    Player Hypnotik calls (1200)
    *** FLOP ***: [5s 7c 10d]
    Player Hypnotik checks
    Player 1RealSickJoker bets (3600)
    Player Mike2Bill calls (3600)
    Player Hypnotik calls (3600)
    *** TURN ***: [5s 7c 10d] [5h]
    Player Hypnotik checks
    Player 1RealSickJoker checks
    Player Mike2Bill bets (7200)
    Player Hypnotik folds
    Player 1RealSickJoker allin (21526)
    Player Mike2Bill folds
    Uncalled bet (14326) returned to 1RealSickJoker
    Player 1RealSickJoker mucks cards
    ------ Summary ------
    Pot: 34080. Rake 0
    Board: [5s 7c 10d 5h]
    *Player 1RealSickJoker mucks (does not show cards). Bets: 13320. Collects: 34080. Wins: 20760.
    Player Mike2Bill does not show cards.Bets: 13320. Collects: 0. Loses: 13320.
    Player silentsam27 does not show cards.Bets: 120. Collects: 0. Loses: 120.
    Player pokermom218 does not show cards.Bets: 120. Collects: 0. Loses: 120.
    Player Bzzzzzz does not show cards.Bets: 120. Collects: 0. Loses: 120.
    Player KnobEnd does not show cards.Bets: 120. Collects: 0. Loses: 120.
    Player LordLeon does not show cards.Bets: 720. Collects: 0. Loses: 720.
    Player Hypnotik does not show cards.Bets: 6120. Collects: 0. Loses: 6120.
    Player CashoutCurse22 does not show cards.Bets: 120. Collects: 0. Loses: 120.
    Game ended at: 2014/4/23 22:33:2
    "Success is a science; if you have the conditions, you will get the results" -Oscar Wilde

    MY CAPS LOCK IS BROKEN!

    ┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐

  2. #2
    musicmannn
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    61
    Nice one LOL!

  3. #3
    PokerOwned Veteran
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
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    145
    poker is a game sometimes it includes bluffing

  4. #4
    PokerOwned Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    317
    Good bluffing at the right time can pay off well just dont get caught it can cripple you

  5. #5
    PokerOwned Veteran
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    119
    bluffing is def. one of the trickiest aspects in poker

  6. #6
    PokerOwned Demi-God s810car's Avatar
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    Dec 2013
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    1,159
    eh that was a semi bluff anyways, and basically he pushed out someone with most likely QT or KT (or even JTs) representing an overpair by dk's betting pattern and position, with almost certainly the full 6 outs for river should he have been called. NH man
    Always Remember Your Roots



    Makeup Owed: http://www.pokerowned.com/forums/f31/makeup-thread-post-your-makeup-here-27604.html

  7. #7
    PokerOwned Demi-God NateVest's Avatar
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    Jun 2012
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    1,079
    There are few bets that frustrate regulars as much as the “donk” bet. For those who do not know, a donk bet is when you call out of position and then lead into the preflop raiser on the flop. It was labeled the donk bet because when poker began, it was a play generally used by novice players.

    If you think about it, there are a lot of reasons that a donk bet should not be considered a good play. When I first started encountering the bet it was in $2/$4 cash games years ago. I'd raise in position, my opponent would call and the board would come J-3-5 rainbow or A-5-5 rainbow. My opponent would lead into me and I'd almost always automatically raise.

    I just couldn't put them on anything. If they really had a big hand, wouldn't they check to the initial raiser and allow me to continuation bet? They were usually donk betting with a mediocre second pair that didn't want to call a continuation bet or two big cards that missed the flop. They wanted to remain in the hand, but they couldn't withstand pressure, so they took the horribly illogical initiative.

    Nine times out of ten my flop raise worked. Eventually the donk bet died off in popularity, as even novice players began to understand that it didn't work. Soon the play become so rare online that making a donk bet garnered respect. People assumed you knew how odd your play was and they weren't buying that you'd be thick enough to do it with nothing.

    Thus, the effective donk bet was born. With more players just calling or folding to a donk lead, the play was viable again. This brought up another question: When was a good time to donk bet?

    Before you decide to lead out into different pre-flop raisers I find it's very helpful if you ask yourself some key questions. Is my hand bad enough to check/fold? Is my hand good enough to check/call? Will a check-raise be more effective with my hand here? If the answer to all these questions is no, then you should seriously consider leading into the pre-flop raiser.

    One great example of this came up the other day when I was at a Sunday $30 rebuy final table on PokerStars. A crazy player in the cut-off opened and a nutjob on the button flatted. Both players, like me, were more than 60 big blinds deep. Getting 6-to-1 immediate from the big blind with 6-7o, I flatted and he board came Ah 4d 5d.

    I couldn't check/call here as I only had six pure outs on the turn. My opponent was double-barreling often, so it was unlikely I'd get to see the river. Calling is akin to announcing, “I only want to lose 88% of the time on the turn.” Additionally, my hand was too good to check/fold. I didn't like a check-raise because an ace is an extremely likely card for one of my opponents to have and I didn't think they'd fold a flush draw either.

    I decided to lead into both players. The initial raiser time-banked and called. His hesitation let me know he generally didn't have a big hand. A set or two pair would be tempted to raise here, due to all the draws on the board. I put him on a weak ace, underpair, or flush draw. The button player folded. On the 9h turn I overbet the pot. He quickly showed an ace and folded.

    Double-barreling your combination draws is extremely useful in these spots. This is why one of my favorite boards to donk bet is when I have three to a straight flush with overs. If your opponent just flats on a coordinated board you can often cap their range at one pair. They're unlikely to be raising a turn when you semi-bluff bet. You will get to see the river almost always.

    Being able to see the river allows you to offset how often your bet needs to work as a pure bluff. If you bet half the pot on the turn, your bet will need to work 33% of the time. Throw in a flush draw that hits 20% of the time on the river and gives you the win and your turn double-barrel only ends up needing to work 13% of the time!

    What you should draw from this is that donk betting flops and making serious double-barrels is hugely profitable, but you should generally give up if you miss the river. Your bet doesn't need to work that often on the turn in order to turn a profit, so if it fails don't beat yourself up.

    In addition, tournament players have a quirk. Many of them make their big decision on the turn. If they call on that street they are unlikely to fold anything on the river. If you don't believe me, try bluffing a few rivers in an MTT sometime. You can take advantage of this by value betting big when you make some kind of value hand.

    Betting as a bluff on the turn has tremendous value. You still wield the threat of another big bet. Your drawing equity allows you to make riskier bluffs. Your opponent also doesn't get to see your hand. They can't just end their curiosity-infused stress when they hit the call button. None of these advantages are available to you on the river.

    Donk leading can also be utilized when you have a good hand. A good example of this is found when you call out of the blinds versus a late position raiser with A-Jo. The initial raiser is a decent player, but a little tight. The flop comes A-2-4 rainbow. A donk lead here is exemplary. Your nittier opponent is more likely to have an A-x combination than other hands. He's also much more likely to check back a decent ace for pot control. Leading into him on the flop allows you to get three streets of value.

    You almost always should be betting three streets when you're donk betting for value. If you check on the turn or river you're essentially saying “I have a mediocre pair most of the time, now please outplay me.” With better hands your opponent will value bet more effectively and with bluffs they will have an improved idea as to what they need to do to make you fold.

    Try donk betting more when you have top pair, but the board contains a flush and straight draw. Giving your opponent a turn and river is extremely dangerous here.

    You don't need to donk bet only on the flop. Try check/calling the flop to allow your opponent to continuation bet their air. Then you can lead the safer turns to extract value from flush and straight combinations, along with second pairs they backed into.

    If you're worried about getting raised at any point, remember, your opponent's range is limited. There are only so many sets and two pairs they can flop. If they raise your donk bet, and you think they would just flat with a truly strong hand, try three-bet bluffing them.

    If you're betting for value and don't want to get raised, pay attention to their aggression frequencies on each street. If an opponent is extremely active you might want to check/call instead. If they never bet or raise anything, go ahead and bet/fold the river to manufacture a larger return.

  8. #8
    EddieTorr
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    272
    One of the most information filled posts on PO in quite a while. Will give this a shot, Nate.

  9. #9
    Gods' God's God PokeYourFace's Avatar
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    Nov 2011
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    1,534
    OMFG i HATE DONK LEADERS. OLD PEOPLE @ WSOP LOVE TO DONK LEAD.
    all donk leading tells me, is that ur hand is weak (maybe 1 pair) and u wanna see where u r at,
    1 guy donk led into me , he was small blind he had AQ, the flop was Axx ( i raised pre)... needless to say after he donk led for like 40% of the pot... I STILL TRIED TO PUT THE MOVE ON HIM WITH AIR.... he went all in... i fold3d

    GAWD I HATE DONK LEADERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

    but it did teach me to donk lead with super strong hands, cause other good players HATE donk leaders as well
    RANGER (B2B HU LOYALTY GAME CHAMP! DO YOU REMEMBER THOSE NOOB? NO, NO YOU DON'T!)

  10. #10
    PokerOwned Master cat2455's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    346
    Thanks Nate for all the info. We learn from informative reasons behind the plays.

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