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  1. #1
    PokerOwned God jasonv12's Avatar
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    Interesting spot for analysis (help)

    (Read the entire post and know what you're talking about if you're going to reply please)

    Today in the Carbon Freeroll, I was in the final table 9-handed 500/1000 blinds. I get dealt 9/9 utg. I have 14 bbs, avg stack is 17-18 bbs putting me in 6/9 chip stack wise, not that that's very relevant.

    Up until this point, I had been only double betting to enter pots, so if I varied from that I figured it would give off alarm bells to the type of hand I had. Also, players had been playing rather tight, especially right behind me, so I was by no means desperate in that regard.


    I could have just folded, but the hand looked so pretty I would have felt I had missed a lot of important value.

    I figure if I just open shove, I might as well have had a 2/9 off since the only hands that might call that don't already have me crushed are flipping like AK, AQ, etc., but more likely bigger pairs.

    If I deviate from double betting, I'm afraid I'll be raised out of the pot by a certain player (I'm not going to say who) who I felt was capable of doing so with complete air knowing my typical range in a spot like that.

    So finally, I decide to follow through with the route I had been following by double betting.
    I find a caller in the cutoff and another in the big blind.

    The flop was about as safe as it could be consider it had an over card. It was 10 uc uc (uc = under card).

    My first train of though is that most of the range these players were playing included 10, J, Q, K, and A with the higher end of this being more likely. Plus, I obviously don't hold any blockers to these 19 cards (the one 10 out), so i figure about 20% of the hands these guys were playing to be of danger to me immediately. With 2 players, closer to 36-37%.

    I am out of position so I have to make a feel cbet in order to test my hand strength and to not allow over cards to get there (or hit the board in general). The problem is, such a bet would require me to bet out almost a third of my stack, at which point I'd be almost pot committed to a raise. I decide to bet out as conservative of a bet as isn't transparent, and the cutoff double bets me.

    My notes on this play have me seeing him doing this same move with AK high before and my first train of thought is that he is likely doing this again and with 2/3 of my stack invested, I have to call at this point and of course, it was a J10s, that would have folded (or should have) to my all in, but I gave great odds to call preflop.

    The leveling game I had with the player that I thought could raise a non-standard raise by me dictated a lot of my play that hand unfortunately and I feel I did play that hand rather poorly, but upon further review, I find that I don't even think I know the proper way I should have played this hand.

    As of right now, I'm leaning towards open folding and just waiting for a betting spot without so many uncertainties, especially since 6% of hands either a) beat me or b) are AK, AQ, AJ, or KQs and with 8 players behind me and two cards out from my hand, about 57% of the time, someone will have one of these hands to call behind me. But folding feels wrong too in the sense that I need to continue to chip up to go very much deeper (considering the risk for spots 1-3 where the most money is being worth more than the $0.70 increments or whatever until that point).

    In any case, this hand was extremely challenging for me and I'd really like some advice if anyone has any on a better way I could have played it. Advice would be great.
    Last edited by jasonv12; 06-02-2013 at 03:27 AM.

  2. #2
    Survey Master
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    ill reply in a few need the 5 points now

  3. #3
    PokerOwned God Drywallman3's Avatar
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    quick question how long had the final table been going up to this point? We need to know if was 3 minutes 30 minutes it does make a difference.

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  4. #4
    PokerOwned God jasonv12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drywallman3 View Post
    quick question how long had the final table been going up to this point? We need to know if was 3 minutes 30 minutes it does make a difference.
    Maybe 15-20 minutes.

    I had been playing rather loose for that point (maybe 30% of pots), but it was more because I was getting hands than running over or anything.

  5. #5
    PokerOwned God potfan42o's Avatar
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    im pushing you mentioned the table was tight so ya if someone calls you beat or flipping 99 is a tricky hand though too much thought for a po fr.

  6. #6
    PokerOwned God jasonv12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by potfan42o View Post
    im pushing you mentioned the table was tight so ya if someone calls you beat or flipping 99 is a tricky hand though too much thought for a po fr.
    I'm really just trying to improve as a player from these analyses, more than any sh*t I give about the freeroll tbh. lol

  7. #7
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    ok man. consider the game you are in 1st of all. carbon freeroll. im assuming its one offered from here at pokerowned. if not no biggie, but usually 70-100 players in our freerolls here. of those 70-100 players maybe 10 have a poker brain. the rest just see 2 cards and play idiodic.

    on FT with 99 and players behind you playing tight in a pokerowned freeroll i will take my chances and open shove. youre correct in assuming that if you get a caller youre most likely flipping or beat, but rather than dbl blinds and hope they fold or overs come on flop its better value in my opinion to try n take the blinds pre flop.

    in my opinion you played it wrong. you have 2 options, shove and take blinds or flip. or fold and look for a better hand

  8. #8
    PokerOwned God Drywallman3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonv12 View Post
    (Read the entire post and know what you're talking about if you're going to reply please)

    Today in the Carbon Freeroll, I was in the final table 9-handed 500/1000 blinds. I get dealt 9/9 utg. I have 14 bbs, avg stack is 17-18 bbs putting me in 6/9 chip stack wise, not that that's very relevant.

    Up until this point, I had been only double betting to enter pots, so if I varied from that I figured it would give off alarm bells to the type of hand I had. Also, players had been playing rather tight, especially right behind me, so I was by no means desperate in that regard.


    I could have just folded, but the hand looked so pretty I would have felt I had missed a lot of important value.

    I figure if I just open shove, I might as well have had a 2/9 off since the only hands that might call that don't already have me crushed are flipping like AK, AQ, etc., but more likely bigger pairs.

    If I deviate from double betting, I'm afraid I'll be raised out of the pot by a certain player (I'm not going to say who) who I felt was capable of doing so with complete air knowing my typical range in a spot like that.

    So finally, I decide to follow through with the route I had been following by double betting.
    I find a caller in the cutoff and another in the big blind.

    The flop was about as safe as it could be consider it had an over card. It was 10 uc uc (uc = under card).

    My first train of though is that most of the range these players were playing included 10, J, Q, K, and A with the higher end of this being more likely. Plus, I obviously don't hold any blockers to these 19 cards (the one 10 out), so i figure about 20% of the hands these guys were playing to be of danger to me immediately. With 2 players, closer to 36-37%.

    I am out of position so I have to make a feel cbet in order to test my hand strength and to not allow over cards to get there (or hit the board in general). The problem is, such a bet would require me to bet out almost a third of my stack, at which point I'd be almost pot committed to a raise. I decide to bet out as conservative of a bet as isn't transparent, and the cutoff double bets me.

    My notes on this play have me seeing him doing this same move with AK high before and my first train of thought is that he is likely doing this again and with 2/3 of my stack invested, I have to call at this point and of course, it was a J10s, that would have folded (or should have) to my all in, but I gave great odds to call preflop.

    The leveling game I had with the player that I thought could raise a non-standard raise by me dictated a lot of my play that hand unfortunately and I feel I did play that hand rather poorly, but upon further review, I find that I don't even think I know the proper way I should have played this hand.

    As of right now, I'm leaning towards open folding and just waiting for a betting spot without so many uncertainties, especially since 6% of hands beat me or are AK, AQ, AJ, or KQs and with 8 players behind me and two cards out from my hand, about 57% of the time, someone will have one of these hands behind me. But folding feels wrong too in the sense that I need to continue to chip up to go very much deeper (considering the risk for spots 1-3 where the most money is being worth more than the $0.70 increments or whatever until that point).

    In any case, this hand was extremely challenging for me and I'd really like some advice if anyone has any on a better way I could have played it. Advice would be great.


    I may be wrong and I have read this twice and feel that was where it went wrong, sometimes when I see 1 higher card on the flop over my pair I just check it looks very weak but it help to just lay them down when you see their bet.

    20:58 <Poof> I would trade my husband for gisele
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  9. #9
    PokerOwned Demi-God
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    I like the check behind a double bet, or else just push and pray

  10. #10
    PokerOwned God jasonv12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drywallman3 View Post
    I may be wrong and I have read this twice and feel that was where it went wrong, sometimes when I see 1 higher card on the flop over my pair I just check it looks very weak but it help to just lay them down when you see their bet.
    Interesting. I suppose I still have to call one street and have to worry about another scare card on the turn and each street after this way, but that may be less awkward in some regards.

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