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  1. #1
    Experienced Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012

    Lost with Ace King Twice!! against crappier hands in poker owned tourney

    Had the best hand going into the flop, other guy had Ace Queen suited, and hit his flush on the river as he is laughing. Next time deeper in the tourney Guy beats me out with Ace Jack against my Ace King after a pair of aces come out on the flop and I go all in. I understand that it's not the best thing to always go in on these hands it's just so hard to resist, but come on Carbon poker it seems that you always favor the underdog he just as quickly throws in his hand and wins with the lesser hand 80% of the time.

  2. #2
    PokerOwned God wagon596's Avatar
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    Jan 2011
    Ace/King looks good but against any's like any two cards you can lose with them.

  3. #3
    PokerOwned Veteran
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    Nov 2012
    It's all a part of poker and the more it happens to you, the more likely you are to not go all-in willy-nilly with just a pair of aces on the flop.

  4. #4
    PokerOwned Pro
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Quote Originally Posted by charlymorton View Post
    It's all a part of poker and the more it happens to you, the more likely you are to not go all-in willy-nilly with just a pair of aces on the flop.
    I tend to disagree with this.

    Take the second situation as the example.

    Don't have all the info but he said he has AK and oppo has AJ and flop comes down with AAX lets assume X=6 but almost any card (Less a J or something giving a four card flush) changes the situation much.

    The AJ is about an 8-1-1 8 times the AK wins, once the AJ wins and once the hands split the pot out of ten times (3 outs, board pairs and no K or J come)

    This means if the same scenario is ran 1000 times (or you do this play 1000 times over your poker life) you will win 800, lose 100 and tie 100 ie up about 700 times the amount that is "all-in" seems good.

    BUT you must think what hands will actually call you on the all-in which changes the math DRAMATICALLY. (This assumes he always calls)

    Say the pot is Y and your effective stack is X (the lesser of your or oppo stack).

    My simplified explanation is below.

    A is the chance your oppo folds (expressed as a decimal)
    B is the chance your oppo calls and has a better hand. (66 or A6 rem I assume the last card on the flop was a 6, AA isnt possible since 3 are in play already)

    The value of the play during each scenario is shown as,

    A: V = Y

    now let u be the chance the your hand wins, z be the chance your oppo hand wins and q is the chance of a split pot. (After the turn and the River)

    B: V = u(2X+Y) - z(2X+Y) + 1/2q(2X+Y)

    The cost of making this play is your effective stack , X, and lets again let V represent the value of the play , bringing this altogether we get the following,

    V = AY + B(u(2X+Y) - z(2X+Y) + 1/2q(2X+Y)) - X

    Let us come back to our definition of A and B then explain why it is important to see how they should impact u, z and q.

    What would the villain actually call with in this scenario. Now depending on the villains play style and what happened pre-flop you may be able to put a range on the opponents hand and rule out A6 suited (or unsuited tho it would be hard to play in most situations) or 66. (The only hands you are a dog to). These are almost a certain call.

    The hands that you would beat and he would call with include KK or other high pocket pair, a smaller A or 6x. Now i know your oppo did call with AJ but how many of these hands would you oppo be in with and call. Not alot.

    Your opponents fold % may be extermly high in this case and that seems good.

    Long story short your opponent will most likely fold unless he has you beat, this makes the bet bad.

    This means that you will either A win money you were supposed to anyways (just earlier) or B lose ALL of your money the best play is bet a smaller amount that would actually entice a call from a weaker hand.
    The only converse to the above would be when he is on a come hand and you give him odds with a smaller bet, although the allin does force the AJ and worse to fold (OR IT SHOULD because truly what can AJ beat besides a bluff!) and protect your hand it appears to be the weaker play.

    So not only does the All-in risk the tournament life it also seems like the worse play.

    Hey look no math required to get the answer we were looking for. I just show the math for those intuative readers that can deduct the final reasoning as the math is evolving.

    So my disagree answer is one step thinking. If we go farther and use 2 step thought the answer does change.

    Disclaimer: I AM A FISH and take all this with a grain of salt.
    Last edited by AAallday; 02-20-2013 at 09:57 PM.

  5. #5
    PokerOwned Demi-God ssuglia's Avatar
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    Jan 2011
    AK isn't winning 100% of the time?

    Carbon is obviously rigged.

    20:52 <onehotdame> sug ...your the most helpful of Mods
    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

  6. #6
    PokerOwned Veteran
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    Feb 2013
    As said above AK will not win every time, If it did i would never loose

  7. #7
    Elite PokerOwned Member RWPFhero's Avatar
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    Jan 2012
    Now if AK where to lose 100 times in a row heads up, I would be a bit concerned.
    Good Luck On and Off The Felt
    Utilize The Block Chain because the future depends on it!

  8. #8
    Elite PokerOwned Member
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    Sep 2012
    ak is a decent starting hand but in fr they lose often

  9. #9
    PokerOwned God rrickir's Avatar
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    Dec 2010
    this is nothing new at alll, sooory. but it happens all the time. AK is always risky to any 2 carsd too but GL

  10. #10
    TON is Gone.
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Quote Originally Posted by treeman69 View Post
    ak is a decent starting hand but in fr they lose often
    Ya ummmmm about that...... yes I bluffed, and yes I caught runner runner for the flush. What can I say? You both checked to me so short stacked, I took a chance.
    TON is GONE. Blame the Mods. They stopped caring, or at least that's how it looks and feels.

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