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  1. #1
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    Sep 2012
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    Folding KK preflop

    Ive been grinding 4nl since november. Ive put in around 100k hands. One thing I noticed is how often AA and KK go head to head. The odds are 1 in 25 but it feels like a lot more. I see it happen every single day if not to myself. So far I have ran KK into AA 16 times. I hero folded 4/5 pre correct, stacked off 10 times, and managed to negate losses another time on a Q xx Q x runout. I have yet to crack AA with KK. The one time I slammed the K, he backdoored the straight. Ive only had AA vs KK 5 times. Three of these times I have lost, two of the pots being multiway and juicy on tables I had 150BBs. Here is one of my preflop folds with KK:

    Seat 1: Tadashi201 ( $8.04 USD )
    Seat 2: GagePhineas ( $4.00 USD )
    Seat 3: blufferKittyKat30 ( $20.31 USD )
    Seat 4: TookiePoker ( $3.88 USD )
    Seat 5: dagrump23 ( $4.35 USD )
    Seat 6: pocketx2 ( $1.44 USD )
    Seat 7: toniredfern21 ( $2.63 USD )
    Seat 8: d33p5t4ck3d ( $4.17 USD )
    Seat 9: lycowolf ( $8.57 USD )
    Tadashi201 posts small blind [$0.02 USD].
    GagePhineas posts big blind [$0.04 USD].
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to d33p5t4ck3d [ Kd Ks ]
    blufferKittyKat30 folds
    TookiePoker folds
    dagrump23 folds
    pocketx2 folds
    toniredfern21 raises [$0.08 USD]
    d33p5t4ck3d raises [$0.35 USD]
    lycowolf raises [$8.57 USD]
    Tadashi201 folds
    GagePhineas folds
    toniredfern21 calls [$2.55 USD]
    d33p5t4ck3d folds
    d33p5t4ck3d shows [Kd, Ks ]
    toniredfern21 shows [As, Qd ]
    lycowolf shows [Ac, Ah ]
    ** Dealing Flop ** [ Th, 2s, 7h ]
    ** Dealing Turn ** [ 8d ]
    ** Dealing River ** [ Qc ]
    lycowolf wins $5.39 USD from main pot
    lycowolf wins $5.94 USD

  2. #2
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    Sep 2012
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    Here is a KK fold pre. I did not get to see if he had AA, but pretty convinced he had it. He i 13/11 over 2k hands and the guy who 3bets and folds JJ is 13/10 over 2k hands so they are both super nitty. I expect UnclePhillip to have QQ here a decent amount as well but his sizing also lead me to think it was AA

    ***** Hand History for Game 63070298611 ***** (Merge)
    $4.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, November 06, 07:55:20 ET 2012
    Table Havana (63070298) (Real Money)
    Seat 2 is the button
    Seat 1: dtm123 ( $4.40 USD )
    Seat 2: UnclePhillip ( $4.06 USD )
    Seat 4: ImAceKingU2Fold1 ( $3.65 USD )
    Seat 5: 6pro8newt ( $4.05 USD )
    Seat 6: fatcat1029 ( $5.44 USD )
    Seat 7: d33p5t4ck3d ( $4.68 USD )
    Seat 8: lambgoesbaah ( $1.72 USD )
    Seat 9: 1a5xz2 ( $4.00 USD )
    ImAceKingU2Fold1 posts small blind [$0.02 USD].
    6pro8newt posts big blind [$0.04 USD].
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to d33p5t4ck3d [ Ks Kh ]
    fatcat1029 folds
    d33p5t4ck3d raises [$0.12 USD]
    lambgoesbaah raises [$0.36 USD]
    1a5xz2 folds
    dtm123 folds
    UnclePhillip raises [$0.92 USD]
    ImAceKingU2Fold1 folds
    6pro8newt folds
    d33p5t4ck3d folds
    lambgoesbaah folds
    lambgoesbaah shows [Jd, Js ]
    UnclePhillip wins $0.90 USD from main pot
    UnclePhillip wins $0.56 USD

  3. #3
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    Sep 2012
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    Here is a KK where I get limp 3bet by AA and manage to mitigate losses to only .58 after the flop. Instead of 4betting pre, I flat in position to keep the AK, QQ, JJ of his range in the hand and to control the pot. The problem with getting in raising wars with KK pre is you scare out the hands you wanna keep in and trap yourself verse AA.

    ***** Hand History for Game 62965014473 ***** (Merge)
    $4.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, November 03, 11:44:47 ET 2012
    Table Havana III (62965014) (Real Money)
    Seat 6 is the button
    Seat 1: d33p5t4ck3d ( $6.28 USD )
    Seat 2: hRobi91 ( $4.00 USD )
    Seat 3: dmateja ( $4.00 USD )
    Seat 4: lTuneRl ( $6.04 USD )
    Seat 5: RazCue ( $3.99 USD )
    Seat 6: XJohnHolmesX ( $8.05 USD )
    Seat 7: tfoss388 ( $3.96 USD )
    Seat 8: airpinto ( $2.34 USD )
    Seat 9: BigButton ( $4.00 USD )
    tfoss388 posts small blind [$0.02 USD].
    airpinto posts big blind [$0.04 USD].
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to d33p5t4ck3d [ Kd Kh ]
    BigButton calls [$0.04 USD]
    d33p5t4ck3d raises [$0.18 USD]
    hRobi91 folds
    lTuneRl folds
    RazCue folds
    XJohnHolmesX folds
    tfoss388 folds
    airpinto folds
    BigButton raises [$0.32 USD]
    d33p5t4ck3d calls [$0.18 USD]
    ** Dealing Flop ** [ 9s, 3s, 9d ]
    BigButton bets [$0.52 USD]
    d33p5t4ck3d calls [$0.52 USD]
    ** Dealing Turn ** [ Tc ]
    BigButton checks
    d33p5t4ck3d checks
    ** Dealing River ** [ 2h ]
    BigButton bets [$0.16 USD]
    d33p5t4ck3d calls [$0.16 USD]
    BigButton shows [Ah, Ad ]
    d33p5t4ck3d shows [Kd, Kh ]
    BigButton wins $2.04 USD from main pot

  4. #4
    Elite PokerOwned Member
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    Jun 2012
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    544
    nice hands. good insight.

  5. #5
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    Sep 2012
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    Here is a postflop play with KK. While it does cost me $1.27 post flop to get away from this hand, I am able to correctly fold it on a 9 high flop. I check do to being oop and then put in a 3bet verse a very well known opponent who check raises to figure out if he is on some type of draw (hands he loves to play), if he has a worse overpair (I expect him to fold), or if he has a set (expect him to jam). He does end up jamming and I am able to fold. Costly, but better than stacking off.

    ***** Hand History for Game 63157461284 ***** (Merge)
    $4.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, November 08, 10:44:31 ET 2012
    Table Havana VIII (63157461) (Real Money)
    Seat 9 is the button
    Seat 1: JohnyUtahX ( $8.40 USD )
    Seat 2: jbullag ( $3.80 USD )
    Seat 3: XJohnHolmesX ( $3.93 USD )
    Seat 4: ihaveavacuum2 ( $4.35 USD )
    Seat 5: d33p5t4ck3d ( $7.86 USD )
    Seat 6: noruk1 ( $4.33 USD )
    Seat 7: 4charley ( $3.32 USD )
    Seat 8: AccioChips ( $5.54 USD )
    Seat 9: gotanychange ( $4.00 USD )
    JohnyUtahX posts small blind [$0.02 USD].
    jbullag posts big blind [$0.04 USD].
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to d33p5t4ck3d [ Kc Kh ]
    XJohnHolmesX folds
    ihaveavacuum2 folds
    d33p5t4ck3d raises [$0.12 USD]
    4charley folds
    AccioChips calls [$0.12 USD]
    gotanychange calls [$0.12 USD]
    JohnyUtahX calls [$0.10 USD]
    jbullag folds
    ** Dealing Flop ** [ 7s, 9h, 3h ]
    JohnyUtahX checks
    d33p5t4ck3d checks
    AccioChips bets [$0.26 USD]
    gotanychange folds
    JohnyUtahX raises [$0.58 USD]
    d33p5t4ck3d raises [$1.27 USD]
    AccioChips raises [$5.16 USD]
    JohnyUtahX raises [$7.70 USD]
    d33p5t4ck3d folds
    d33p5t4ck3d shows [Kc, Kh ]
    JohnyUtahX shows [3c, 3d ]
    AccioChips shows [Ah, 4h ]
    ** Dealing Turn ** [ 7c ]
    ** Dealing River ** [ Ac ]
    JohnyUtahX wins $12.00 USD from main pot
    JohnyUtahX wins $2.86 USD

  6. #6
    Elite PokerOwned Member
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    Jun 2012
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    544
    i really dont like johny utah.

  7. #7
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    Sep 2012
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    971
    Here is a sick hand where I make the raise with KK .12 go four way to the flop and fold on the flop to a single bet. The villian XJohnHolmesX I have a lot of history here with. I know he is check calling a lot of his middle strength hands, top pairs. But he is leading out sets and straights. On a 6 10 9 ss flop i toss KK to holmes who is first to open and bets .39. His sizing was a bit of a tell that he had a strong hand and I know he loves to play hands like 78s. I expected to see the straight or a set and it made sense for him to lead out on a flush draw board instead of slow playing. I kick my KK and watch set over set unfold while dumping a monster for just 12 cents.

    ***** Hand History for Game 63382500202 ***** (Merge)
    $4.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, November 14, 10:46:10 ET 2012
    Table Havana II (63382500) (Real Money)
    Seat 5 is the button
    Seat 1: jbullag ( $5.18 USD )
    Seat 2: Fereidoon ( $1.86 USD )
    Seat 3: BioLogical ( $3.75 USD )
    Seat 4: ozdogg916 ( $2.08 USD )
    Seat 5: bate72 ( $1.38 USD )
    Seat 6: XJohnHolmesX ( $3.98 USD )
    Seat 7: unome2 ( $4.00 USD )
    Seat 8: 6pro8newt ( $9.72 USD )
    Seat 9: d33p5t4ck3d ( $4.47 USD )
    XJohnHolmesX posts small blind [$0.02 USD].
    unome2 posts big blind [$0.04 USD].
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to d33p5t4ck3d [ Kd Kc ]
    6pro8newt folds
    d33p5t4ck3d raises [$0.12 USD]
    jbullag calls [$0.12 USD]
    Fereidoon folds
    BioLogical folds
    ozdogg916 calls [$0.12 USD]
    XJohnHolmesX calls [$0.10 USD]
    unome2 folds
    ** Dealing Flop ** [ 6h, Ts, 9s ]
    XJohnHolmesX bets [$0.39 USD]
    d33p5t4ck3d folds
    jbullag calls [$0.39 USD]
    ozdogg916 raises [$0.96 USD]
    XJohnHolmesX raises [$1.14 USD]
    jbullag folds
    ozdogg916 calls [$1.00 USD]
    XJohnHolmesX calls [$0.43 USD]
    ozdogg916 shows [6c, 6d ]
    XJohnHolmesX shows [Td, Tc ]
    ** Dealing Turn ** [ 3c ]
    ** Dealing River ** [ 4d ]
    XJohnHolmesX wins $4.59 USD from main pot

  8. #8
    PokerOwned God abwil2's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,675
    Nice reads there and thnx for sharing. maybe you shouldnt have posted these since it shows you know how to fold a big hand..j/k
    Failing to Prepare is Preparing to fail : John Wooden

  9. #9
    PokerOwned God
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    Dec 2011
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    1,969
    Cant believe you got away from KK loss so light. In the long run me thinks u might lose some Cash. I mean - 90% of the time you got ur opponent beat pre flop.. the flop is awesome for kk. Odds he has a 9? very low or 33 hole cards - very low. In these limits I may be shoving harder and pushing Ak, AQ, QQ, JJ etc off their hands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharking View Post
    Here is a KK where I get limp 3bet by AA and manage to mitigate losses to only .58 after the flop. Instead of 4betting pre, I flat in position to keep the AK, QQ, JJ of his range in the hand and to control the pot. The problem with getting in raising wars with KK pre is you scare out the hands you wanna keep in and trap yourself verse AA.

    ***** Hand History for Game 62965014473 ***** (Merge)
    $4.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, November 03, 11:44:47 ET 2012
    Table Havana III (62965014) (Real Money)
    Seat 6 is the button
    Seat 1: d33p5t4ck3d ( $6.28 USD )
    Seat 2: hRobi91 ( $4.00 USD )
    Seat 3: dmateja ( $4.00 USD )
    Seat 4: lTuneRl ( $6.04 USD )
    Seat 5: RazCue ( $3.99 USD )
    Seat 6: XJohnHolmesX ( $8.05 USD )
    Seat 7: tfoss388 ( $3.96 USD )
    Seat 8: airpinto ( $2.34 USD )
    Seat 9: BigButton ( $4.00 USD )
    tfoss388 posts small blind [$0.02 USD].
    airpinto posts big blind [$0.04 USD].
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to d33p5t4ck3d [ Kd Kh ]
    BigButton calls [$0.04 USD]
    d33p5t4ck3d raises [$0.18 USD]
    hRobi91 folds
    lTuneRl folds
    RazCue folds
    XJohnHolmesX folds
    tfoss388 folds
    airpinto folds
    BigButton raises [$0.32 USD]
    d33p5t4ck3d calls [$0.18 USD]
    ** Dealing Flop ** [ 9s, 3s, 9d ]
    BigButton bets [$0.52 USD]
    d33p5t4ck3d calls [$0.52 USD]
    ** Dealing Turn ** [ Tc ]
    BigButton checks
    d33p5t4ck3d checks
    ** Dealing River ** [ 2h ]
    BigButton bets [$0.16 USD]
    d33p5t4ck3d calls [$0.16 USD]
    BigButton shows [Ah, Ad ]
    d33p5t4ck3d shows [Kd, Kh ]
    BigButton wins $2.04 USD from main pot

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