pot limit omaha

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05-05-2012, 10:45 AM
donny111

pot limit omaha

5-10 pot limit cash game:
i have 800 in front of me and villain an experienced old vet has 2000.
i have AK109 with AK hearts.
action is raised pot to 30 and there is one other caller taking a flop with me and villain.
with about 100 in the pot the flop comes JQ3 rainbow with no hearts.
villain bets pot and only i call bringing the pot up to 300.
turn card comes a 5 placing two spades on board and villain again pots it for 300.
WITH 770 LEFT DO U CALL 300 MORE TO STILL TRY AND CHASE A WRAP AROUND STR8 DRAW EVEN THO THERE IS NOW FLUSH DRAW IN SPADES OUT THERE, POTENTIALLY TAKING SOME OF YOUR STR8 OUTS AWAY ?
05-05-2012, 10:52 AM
motoconcho1

Omaha is one of the most difficult games that are in the COMBINATIONS poker for the many out there.
05-05-2012, 11:53 AM
GIOMi6

Pot limit Omaha is a high variance drawing game.
05-05-2012, 12:00 PM
mawoyto

Ohama is not my game so if there is a flaw in my logic, please point it out.

You have 16 outs. You are 33% to catch the straight and win the pot, although maybe just a share of it. The pot is just right making it a coin toss.

A flush draw is on the board meaning some of your outs may be gone. Do you assume he has two spades and take away 5 outs or figure he has a 1 in 4 chance of being on a spade draw effectively taking away one out. Either way you are no longer getting pot odds.

What about implied odds? If you hit the straight will you get paid off? Probably not if he is an experienced vet. You left out seat position. If you are first to act and bet he will probably fold. If you check he will probably check. If you are second to act and bet he may call if he thinks you are bluffing.

What could your opponent have? He raised preflop. I put him on highs cards with straight and/or flush possibilities. Since he may be drawing to one of the same straights I am that greatly reduces my return.

I fold.

PS Don't you have just 670 left?
05-05-2012, 12:28 PM
steveg78

I love omaha, you get more hands that are playable and thus way more action and not as boring.
05-05-2012, 12:30 PM
donny111

Quote:

Originally Posted by mawoyto

Ohama is not my game so if there is a flaw in my logic, please point it out.

You have 16 outs. You are 33% to catch the straight and win the pot, although maybe just a share of it. The pot is just right making it a coin toss.

A flush draw is on the board meaning some of your outs may be gone. Do you assume he has two spades and take away 5 outs or figure he has a 1 in 4 chance of being on a spade draw effectively taking away one out. Either way you are no longer getting pot odds.

What about implied odds? If you hit the straight will you get paid off? Probably not if he is an experienced vet. You left out seat position. If you are first to act and bet he will probably fold. If you check he will probably check. If you are second to act and bet he may call if he thinks you are bluffing.

What could your opponent have? He raised preflop. I put him on highs cards with straight and/or flush possibilities. Since he may be drawing to one of the same straights I am that greatly reduces my return.

I fold.

PS Don't you have just 670 left?

ya i have 670, thats a typo. position doesnt matter much in this scenario presented bc regardless your calling half your stack to try and hit the draw and if it doesnt come i believe hes calling regardless whether im first to bet or not. only real argument here is that if a spade comes do you try and shove hoping he wasnt on a spade draw. your right in that some of my outs may taken with the spade. seems like implied odds arent there because i cant really just be check calling with anything but a draw here (if i had a set i think he knows i would have check/shoved the turn). i think its a fold also, i think in this scenario trying to get it in on the flop is the best choice but when u dont u prolly have to fold the turn since as you pointed out hitting the draw might only get me half the pot, which erases a great majority of my equity not to mention outs to actually hit it.
05-05-2012, 01:50 PM
wwwrungood

You have to fold even if theres no spade flush draw. You just don't have a enough chips to where ud get a big payout if you hit on the river. You have to have over 1k to chase it-with no spade flush draw. I don't play that much plo, so this is just my opinion.
05-05-2012, 02:03 PM
hamedbest

pot limit omaha sucks:)))))))))))))
05-05-2012, 02:05 PM
dragonad120

I love pot limit omaha :)
05-05-2012, 02:40 PM
joefine

you fold there. you have no hand and you are only drawing to broadway with 2 tens (since you are already holding a 10 in your hand) plus the 10 of spades could be tainted. plus 4 8s again with the possibility that the 8 of spades is tainted - leaving you with 4 outs or only abt 10% chance you will hit a clean straight.

btw - my understanding of a wrap in omaha is that 3 different numeric cards will complete a straight for you but i only see 2 in you example 10 and 8.
05-05-2012, 02:40 PM
ad87ag

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragonad120

I love pot limit omaha :)

Yes I love it tooooo
05-05-2012, 05:12 PM
donny111

Quote:

Originally Posted by joefine

you fold there. you have no hand and you are only drawing to broadway with 2 tens (since you are already holding a 10 in your hand) plus the 10 of spades could be tainted. plus 4 8s again with the possibility that the 8 of spades is tainted - leaving you with 4 outs or only abt 10% chance you will hit a clean straight.

btw - my understanding of a wrap in omaha is that 3 different numeric cards will complete a straight for you but i only see 2 in you example 10 and 8.

ya a wrap around str8 is 3 or more cards to make a str8. and i have more ways to hit broadway or the nut str8 for that matter. i have AK109 with QJ53 board. i can hit an ACE (THEN K10 WILL PLAY) KING(THEN A10 WILL PLAY) 10 (THEN AK WILL PLAY) 9(THEN K10 WILL PLAY) 8(THEN 910 WILL PLAY) . these are all the nut str8 draws i have with the hand, the problem and moreover the question is whether to call to try and hit given the fact that the opponent could have spades thus reducing a great number of my str8 outs.
05-05-2012, 05:23 PM
joefine

Quote:

Originally Posted by donny111

ya a wrap around str8 is 3 or more cards to make a str8. and i have more ways to hit broadway or the nut str8 for that matter. i have AK109 with QJ53 board. i can hit an ACE (THEN K10 WILL PLAY) KING(THEN A10 WILL PLAY) 10 (THEN AK WILL PLAY) 9(THEN K10 WILL PLAY) 8(THEN 910 WILL PLAY) . these are all the nut str8 draws i have with the hand, the problem and moreover the question is whether to call to try and hit given the fact that the opponent could have spades thus reducing a great number of my str8 outs.

you are of course correct sir - my mistake! that's why i suck at omaha. so that adds 3 aces to you out minus the ace of space so total clean out is up to 6 - still only about 15% equity in the pot. clear fold.
05-05-2012, 05:24 PM
Derickp55

im not the best at omaha but it looks to me like that call after flop was a bad play if you were going with the hand you should have applied pressure right then and made him have the tough decision!
05-05-2012, 06:39 PM
donny111

Quote:

Originally Posted by joefine

you are of course correct sir - my mistake! that's why i suck at omaha. so that adds 3 aces to you out minus the ace of space so total clean out is up to 6 - still only about 15% equity in the pot. clear fold.

i do agree ithink the fold is the correct play but your still only counting "BROADWAY" for my outs. i dont need to hit broadway to win, all the str8 draws i previously mentioned are the NUT STR8S. i dont know why you are fixated on only counting broadway as a winning hand? my outs: AK1098 DIAMONDS+AK8 CLUBS+1098 HEARTS=11 OUTS
05-05-2012, 06:41 PM
donny111

Quote:

Originally Posted by derickp55

im not the best at omaha but it looks to me like that call after flop was a bad play if you were going with the hand you should have applied pressure right then and made him have the tough decision!

i agree for the most part, but u try shoving in $400+ real dollars with a draw lol! Remember this is a cash game not a tourney!
05-05-2012, 06:56 PM
CheapskatePoker

I have just enough luck with pot limit omaha to be dangerous.
05-05-2012, 06:57 PM
CheapskatePoker

But not enough luck to overcome skill.
05-05-2012, 07:24 PM
joefine

Quote:

Originally Posted by donny111

i do agree ithink the fold is the correct play but your still only counting "BROADWAY" for my outs. i dont need to hit broadway to win, all the str8 draws i previously mentioned are the NUT STR8S. i dont know why you are fixated on only counting broadway as a winning hand? my outs: AK1098 DIAMONDS+AK8 CLUBS+1098 HEARTS=11 OUTS

easy there guy... again you are right. obv. i'm not a omaha guru but no need to yell. even with 11 outs that still only gives you 27% equity. So you're not getting pot-odds to call and your implied odds are not great given if a A, K or 10 does come is the guy willing to pay you off with an obvious st8 on board? The best case scenario is a 9 or 8 and you could well stack the guy. But, I guess I would ask myself - What happens when the river bricks or a spade completing one of your st8 comes in - what are you going to do having invested so much in the pot already?
05-05-2012, 08:24 PM
bmeelneg

Its about an equity neutral play by either calling or folding its really close.

True that 11 nut out once you're getting priced out ... those 5 other outs you cannot calculate as zero outs because that potential flush is coming BACKDOOR. You can cut those 5 outs in half giving you 2.5 more. He jammed before there was a flush draw, he jammed when there was a flush draw. You cannot assume he has a flush draw by his actions.

So with 13.5 outs (11 + 2.5) you are right in the middle of the equity zone. Fold if you are tight ... call if you are loose (its not all that loose).
05-06-2012, 02:34 PM
TARGI

Omaha is one of the most difficult games
05-06-2012, 04:20 PM
donny111

Quote:

Originally Posted by joefine

easy there guy... again you are right. obv. i'm not a omaha guru but no need to yell. even with 11 outs that still only gives you 27% equity. So you're not getting pot-odds to call and your implied odds are not great given if a A, K or 10 does come is the guy willing to pay you off with an obvious st8 on board? The best case scenario is a 9 or 8 and you could well stack the guy. But, I guess I would ask myself - What happens when the river bricks or a spade completing one of your st8 comes in - what are you going to do having invested so much in the pot already?

haha i didnt mean to yell just trying to get my pt across to you. and btw your question at the end was essentially the basis for this whole thread. btw just so u know in my most of my threads i like to get players thinking critically and explaining decisions, its not so much that i actually card what their answer is or want correct feedback on someones opinion.
05-06-2012, 04:23 PM
donny111

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmeelneg

Its about an equity neutral play by either calling or folding its really close.

True that 11 nut out once you're getting priced out ... those 5 other outs you cannot calculate as zero outs because that potential flush is coming BACKDOOR. You can cut those 5 outs in half giving you 2.5 more. He jammed before there was a flush draw, he jammed when there was a flush draw. You cannot assume he has a flush draw by his actions.

So with 13.5 outs (11 + 2.5) you are right in the middle of the equity zone. Fold if you are tight ... call if you are loose (its not all that loose).

thank you ! i think your the only person in this thread who really got the question and analyzed the data. i dont so much consider myself tight but i didnt really feel like jamming $670 with one card to come with a wrap.
05-07-2012, 12:48 AM
bmeelneg

Quote:

Originally Posted by donny111

thank you ! i think your the only person in this thread who really got the question and analyzed the data. i dont so much consider myself tight but i didnt really feel like jamming $670 with one card to come with a wrap.

yw

If you play O8, I'd be happy to throw my 2 cents worth at some hand analysis ...
05-07-2012, 03:16 PM
bakreni12

Pot limit Omaha is a high variance drawing game
05-09-2012, 10:00 AM
Mappet

i like pot limit omaha
05-09-2012, 01:45 PM
rondem18

I love omaha but u need a big bankroll to be successful
05-09-2012, 01:56 PM
pokernut92

love omaha but dont think you need a br to play omaha you need a good hand selection process
05-10-2012, 11:04 AM
panterunico

olaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ay alguien hayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
05-10-2012, 05:02 PM
mightymaron

Quote:

Originally Posted by donny111

5-10 pot limit cash game:
i have 800 in front of me and villain an experienced old vet has 2000.
i have AK109 with AK hearts.
action is raised pot to 30 and there is one other caller taking a flop with me and villain.
with about 100 in the pot the flop comes JQ3 rainbow with no hearts.
villain bets pot and only i call bringing the pot up to 300.
turn card comes a 5 placing two spades on board and villain again pots it for 300.
WITH 770 LEFT DO U CALL 300 MORE TO STILL TRY AND CHASE A WRAP AROUND STR8 DRAW EVEN THO THERE IS NOW FLUSH DRAW IN SPADES OUT THERE, POTENTIALLY TAKING SOME OF YOUR STR8 OUTS AWAY ?

Let it go....fold....it was an easy pot back on the flop...now with one less card and no flush card...easy fold