`Ive noticed that alot of bad players check raise, because they have no post flop skills... even good players who lack great post flop skills like me, check raise cuz they afraid to continue on with the hand vs a dominant player for example me.
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`Ive noticed that alot of bad players check raise, because they have no post flop skills... even good players who lack great post flop skills like me, check raise cuz they afraid to continue on with the hand vs a dominant player for example me.
I check raise all the time......part of me
It doesnt apply to all, and I do it too, to a point. But when its obvious that a player is gonna do it, it gets irritating.
I in no means am saying all players that do it are bad or that its not a valuable play in the game. But it seems some players rather check raise then bet out for fear that if they bet out and get raised they will not know what to do next.
Some players assume checking = weakness and will spring into action into any time we check. If I have all big hands locked up or if they rarely have a hand on the board present, we can't get value from them by value betting, so why not check and let them bluff?
It is in my soul :)
I made a float play on the flop, then check raised the turn with air play against a good player a couple days ago because I knew that the board never hit them and I'd already seen them play monster pairs differently earlier, but I had no made hand myself. Reasons come up.Quote:
Originally Posted by wcpepsi1
It works more in low stakes game of course though.
By checking to let them bluff... that is assuming you or who ever is Hero knows they are ahead.. some of these players check raise, really not having a rationale behind the check raise...
Well that's different. I'm just saying I personally check raise often and those are some good conditions where check raising makes sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by wcpepsi1
But in low stakes players are playing there cards more then what others may have, and not putting to much thought into the overall sitaution of the hand. And are more likely to call with hands that a avg. to good player may fold more often then not. Top pair even mid pair to a donk, bad player is the nuts. Knowing a person is weak is good... but when u try to push a calling station or donk off top pair which is near impossible it back fires.... You can know someone is really weak.. but in them spots u need to have a hand cuz they arent going to fold. I do understand both your reasoning though.
Check raising just seems to be more prevelant recently, also I do believe some players check raise because they wanna end a hand right then and there and go no further. Because the art of post flop play is lost.
Flat betting out when you hit a flip or miss it, is a lost art. Id say back when i started playing in 02 it was alot more prevelant.
You're making some good conclusions, but try to think deeper about it. What's your goal in each hand? To get the most value when you're ahead and to lose the least value when you are behind. In cash games, that's all.Quote:
Originally Posted by wcpepsi1
A player who can't fold, great I would never check raise bluff them, but when I had a set or something, bam their stack is mine. A player who is weak tight, but almost too able to fold to pressure is almost as bad. A check raise bluff with a flush draw or open ended straight draw, or even on a low board that never hit their range, is totally within reason. It's really about what is most profitable in each spot against each player. That's how to beat micro stakes.
Yes ty. I do agree that its deeper then i touched on.
My basic statement was that it just seems like check raising is more prevelant now adays. To me it seems anyways, and check raises are used more frequently to try and end a hand sooner for fear of having to see a turn or river.
People also play more aggro these days. It's a tradeoff.Quote:
Originally Posted by wcpepsi1
Oh def. and I blame the evolution of younger and younger players for the aggro and super aggro play.
And also espn and wpt, for only airing bluffs and all in hands on there televised avents so the donks and noobs only see that and think that is real poker, when real poker is folding 90 prct of ur hands pre in full ring games. Well no to say i do but thats the industry standard.
Be careful, I'm younger then you think. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by wcpepsi1
I actually mean the europeons lol.
Im not gonna lie im very aggressive and make very sick calls and sometimes go broke trying to make hero calls but 90 prct of the time ill get it right.
I came in after or a year before money maker and played in the wsop m/e in 2004. I came 20 or so from the money give or take a few. But yes ive made alot of money vs the aggro. players, just picking them off. I much prefer live poker to online. Even though i feel I have an advantage online vs 99 prct of players due to the fact I have picked up on quite a few tells... online... yeah.. some say its not possible but it is lol. Ill hero call with bottom pair based soley on a tell i picked up on a p layer.
But yes its a aggro mans game.. but im used to people leading out, not check raising cuz they are scared to play me on further streets.. lol i guess ill take it as a compliiment.
How old are you jason... your not 12 lol? jasonv12? lols im 30
lol I act 12 sometimes, but nah. :p I'm almost 20.Quote:
Originally Posted by wcpepsi1
oh ok nice to meet you man gl and gg
I check raise when I want the call, not to end the hand.
Yeah right, But I see so many people say for instance that have Q4 lol and the flop is Q210.. now that person check raises... its a 2 person and me and villian.. now the person with Q4 cant want a call and def. wants to take down the hand..
Also it seems alot of people now adays are check raising mid and bottom pair.. Of course poofy if you check raise you have a top 10 nut hand..
it just seems there is a lack of wanting to play postflop in general.. so the check raising goes along with the all in pre when you have 40 plus bbs
Even without Aces... people dont even 4 or 5 bet any raise to them with a hand and they push
example
I have AJ.
blinds 10/20 first hand of tourney starting stack 2k
I raise 60 utg the button moves in with say AQ AK KQ.. because there is a direct correlation of lacking postflop skills. And missing a flop with AQ or AK not being able to fold A hi.. so rather then that getting all in pre..
also they dont like to reraise.. cuz then they will see a flop most likely its a immediate push... now they dont get the expected + ev with the hand if the just push they just pick up the 60 lol..
With the way miracle cards hit the river online why would anyone want to "let" someone see the turn or river? How is it wrong to not want a donk drawing when they shouldnt be in the hand? Too many just wont fold to regular bets. Couple that with Terrible rng's and you dont want donks drawing EVER!!
bigger question to you, why would ppl check raise? kinda seems simple to me