How could I have played this better?

Let me just start by saying this is a $215 buy in and pwnasaurus is a winner up there. If he is raising the river for VALUE, I'm 100% crushed.

The blocker bet was awkward, but it saved me from going broke. Could he have made a blocker bet raise bluff to take it? I kinda doubt it, right? He has to have a set of AA, KK, or QQ I think?

Would he turn AJ, A10, or KQ into a bluff?

Unfortunately I had no way of figuring this out until giving up 85% of my stack.

Help?

How could I have lost LESS. That's what I'm most interested in..

(24/64 before this, 32 make money and folding leaves me with like 8-9k behind...)

http://i58.tinypic.com/2yl7fbc.png

honestly I think you need to call it off here. He is repping better, but you are acting weak with the lead-out, and he is good enough to turn his hand into a bluff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sickread23

honestly I think you need to call it off here. He is repping better, but you are acting weak with the lead-out, and he is good enough to turn his hand into a bluff.

---

But it's a middle pos 3bet on the largish side and he's a nit... Idk.

More opinions?

Stack sizes are important here man.... a full HH would be more insightful.

looks like a typical carbon/merge cooler. Prolly had 99 on that disgusting website. Best bet woulda been to click back his flop bet to find out where u were. If your gonna check call the flop and turn, ur forcing him to shove the river no matter what he has. In hindsight you prolly shoulda min raised his flop bet and if ur gonna check call the flop and turn you gotta call the river. But folding and and picking a different spot is not terrible if your gut it is turning over with his river shove. GL~

I think the flat calling makes him more aggressive, most of the time people with just check it down if they are getting called down on every street simply because they can't figure out what you are doing, im with babyface feels like a set here

I'm 99.9% sure he had a set. I just wish I could have found a way to get that info without losing ALL those chips. That's what I want help with.

I agree with few of what the others have said, I think when he bet 1900 on the flop and you reraise him, you should then find out how really strong he is with what he does to your raise!! Then you can make your decision if you AQ is good, but im with sickread on this one im calling the river shove!! But like I said, IMO Im reraising the flop bet and that should give you all the info you need to know about how strong he really is!!

Dont check call the flop, nonono, even if he was a failed draw etc you got zero information by check calling each street. Def check raise flop, bet turn. If he repopped in either situation, you had a better shot to get out cheaper. At river, I have to agree with sickread, had to call

Its just like you said s810car, when you check call the flop like that you get no information, had he raised and then bet out the turn if the hand even went to the turn, your gonna get lot more information of what he is holding in his hand, compared to the way the hand played out!! I think you had em honestly, wish we knew tho :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jaytodd28

I agree with few of what the others have said, I think when he bet 1900 on the flop and you reraise him, you should then find out how really strong he is with what he does to your raise!! Then you can make your decision if you AQ is good, but im with sickread on this one im calling the river shove!! But like I said, IMO Im reraising the flop bet and that should give you all the info you need to know about how strong he really is!!

---

A flop reraise is awkward for a number of reasons. He isn't dumb enough to call with KJ or something there to a flop raise, so I'm giving him value when he has hands like he did.
Also, if he pushes all in right then on the flop (which he would with KQ and possibly AJ/A10 if he doesn\'t believe me as well as the sets aforementioned and AK, then I have to call it off anyways.
He WON\'T flat a flop raise. He\'s better than putting himself in an awkward spot like that when a J or 10 peels or something.
He\'ll either shove all in with a range slightly better than mine, or he\'ll fold. No in between. So I can\'t do that. Not even worth considering...

Stacks aren\'t deep enough for a raise and lead on turn. That\'s more than both of our stacks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jasonv12

a flop reraise is awkward for a number of reasons. He isn't dumb enough to call with kj or something there to a flop raise, so i'm giving him value when he has hands like he did.
Also, if he pushes all in right then on the flop (which he would with kq and possibly aj/a10 if he doesn\'t believe me as well as the sets aforementioned and ak, then i have to call it off anyways.
He won\'t flat a flop raise. He\'s better than putting himself in an awkward spot like that when a j or 10 peels or something.
He\'ll either shove all in with a hand that beats mine, or he\'ll fold giving me the pot. No in between. .

---

fyp

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jasonv12

A flop reraise is awkward for a number of reasons. He isn't dumb enough to call with KJ or something there to a flop raise, so I'm giving him value when he has hands like he did.
Also, if he pushes all in right then on the flop (which he would with KQ and possibly AJ/A10 if he doesn\'t believe me as well as the sets aforementioned and AK, then I have to call it off anyways.
He WON\'T flat a flop raise. He\'s better than putting himself in an awkward spot like that when a J or 10 peels or something.
He\'ll either shove all in with a range slightly better than mine, or he\'ll fold. No in between. So I can\'t do that. Not even worth considering...

---

Just my opinion bro, but its definately worth considering bro, I find it hard to believe your saying what I told you is not even worth considering, but hey we all different players here, some good and some bad and some trying to learn!!

continuing on what I said, trying to extract ANY more value in that wet board is suicide, you would want a fold at flop, nothing else would be safe unless you hit a miracle 4 outter boat I wouldnt want to be in that hand past flop. Check-raise ftw

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by s810car

continuing on what I said, trying to extract ANY more value in that wet board is suicide, you would want a fold at flop, nothing else would be safe unless you hit a miracle 4 outter boat I wouldnt want to be in that hand past flop. Check-raise ftw

---

Agree 100%

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by s810car

continuing on what I said, trying to extract ANY more value in that wet board is suicide, you would want a fold at flop, nothing else would be safe unless you hit a miracle 4 outter boat I wouldnt want to be in that hand past flop. Check-raise ftw

---

So raise knowing I'll only get action when beat?

I think the issue here is that you raise/called a 3bet OOP. You should be putting him on a range of hands before you make the call, so if you feel a call is appropriate given stacks sizes/dynamics, I have no idea what on earth would make you consider folding on that flop. Your not deep enough to be playing your hand the way you did. I mean what are you going to do if the flop comes 772? Or j109. I imagine your c/folding a 772 flop which means your kinda spewing chips being so short and calling oop vs a guy who is really good, or your calling a J109 board when your not beating anything and presumably drawing dead to a straight, and your already seeing monsters under the bed on this flop, so a j109 flop would mean likely only an 8 or a K would be good and his range according to you has a lot of Ks... KK/AK. It kinda boils down to a few things: A) your short, B) he is good and capable of turning a made hand like KQ into a bluff C) you have exhibited weakness which is only going to fuel his aggression. The only hand that you could have is AQ, because he is never putting you on AK given the fact that you are short and OOP. Truthfully, he is never putting you on AQ, which means he smells weakness and hye is likely exploiting it. If you really think that his range is so tight that he isn't 3betting wide enough to call here on an AKQ board, then we should be folding pre-flop. Just my 2 cents. We aren't deep enough to be messing around here trying to be a hero. No hate @ all, just my take. obviously you are killing it :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sickread23

I think the issue here is that you raise/called a 3bet OOP. You should be putting him on a range of hands before you make the call, so if you feel a call is appropriate given stacks sizes/dynamics, I have no idea what on earth would make you consider folding on that flop. Your not deep enough to be playing your hand the way you did. I mean what are you going to do if the flop comes 772? Or j109. I imagine your c/folding a 772 flop which means your kinda spewing chips being so short and calling oop vs a guy who is really good, or your calling a J109 board when your not beating anything and presumably drawing dead to a straight, and your already seeing monsters under the bed on this flop, so a j109 flop would mean likely only an 8 or a K would be good and his range according to you has a lot of Ks... KK/AK. It kinda boils down to a few things: A) your short, B) he is good and capable of turning a made hand like KQ into a bluff C) you have exhibited weakness which is only going to fuel his aggression. The only hand that you could have is AQ, because he is never putting you on AK given the fact that you are short and OOP. Truthfully, he is never putting you on AQ, which means he smells weakness and hye is likely exploiting it. If you really think that his range is so tight that he isn't 3betting wide enough to call here on an AKQ board, then we should be folding pre-flop. Just my 2 cents. We aren't deep enough to be messing around here trying to be a hero. No hate @ all, just my take. obviously you are killing it :)

---

He's a nit, I thought he'd be super strong. Partly why I played so defensively.. Maybe I should fold preflop? That's so weak/tight though. My AQ is behind his range from the start tho.

^^^+1 i hate merge the way the do HH, hard to tell if oop for me lol given that ya lead out the flop for sure, checking to me seeing you called preflop smell like mid PP, and with no check raise def not a straight so AT, AK possible to put you on, any hand I could put you on is weaker then you had but allowed to exploit for a bluff

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jasonv12

He's a nit, I thought he'd be super strong. Partly why I played so defensively.. Maybe I should fold preflop? That's so weak/tight though. My AQ is behind his range from the start tho.

---

If your AQ is behind his range you had no business calling the reraise preflop, jus sayin...not criticizing obv just imo

I was wondering about the 3 bet call with ace rag too....I'm out pre

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by s810car

If your AQ is behind his range you had no business calling the reraise preflop, jus sayin...not criticizing obv just imo

---

I mean I think? His 3bet was in early/mid pos. I guess folding preflop was my answer..

To the poster who suggested raising the flop to see how strong he is: the problem with raising to "find out where you're at" is that your opponent can just tell you exactly what he wants you to believe.

Personally I think I would check/call river. It depends a lot on stack size and his 3bet range though.

What's the stack sizes here? I'm not certain that his 3bet range includes A10 AJ KQ here because regularly he will just flat with those hands in position. He is repping a nutted hand so you are bluff catching in this spot.

Sometimes you play something as good as you could have in a given situation, but look back poking holes in your play that would not have been viable in past tense

1. How often do you min bet utg? If it's a decent amount and he has that information his raise could be for more information about the strength of your hand. Or if he knows you fold to bets and raises on later streets frequently, he could be setting you up for a bluff. Of course, he could also be playing a straight forward, solid hand. However, if he is a successful high stakes player, he is not just playing a straight forward nit game. He is making plays such as bluffs, but is doing an excellent job of not showing them.

2. Even though the flop was coordinated, it hit your hand fairly well. If you weren't prepared to play in a flop like this, it may be better to fold your hand pre-flop in the future when you're playing similar situations. If you're playing defensive and tight, this would have been the best move. You have a good, but not great hand, OOP against a tight opponent.

3. By check calling the flop, you have no information on your opponent. He has position on you and could simply be making a bet because of the weakness you showed by checking. The way you played the entire hand looks weak by check calling the flop and turn, and then the bet on the river looks like a poorly timed bluff attempt. You gave him full control. There are 2 ways you could tried to maintain control of the flop. A. Make a standard c-bet (my guess is that you would have been called, but at least you still have control). If you're raised, that shows way more strength than a bet to your check. However, I think the best move would be option B. a check-raise. Even a check min-raise will slow your opponent down unless you're dominated. The best way to avoid how much you lose in a pot is to use raises to gather information. If you make a check raise on the flop and get 3 bet, it's an easy fold. By controlling the size of the raise, you don't have to lose anymore than you lost by calling the turn bet, and you maintain control. It may also make you a tricky player to your opponent. He may try and 3 bet you later to try and steal when you are trying to extract value, or he may check a marginal hand out of fear of another check raise.

A/K and 10/J or even a set here is legit 100%. Easy fold. However I would have lead out first if he calls he's got a monster.

Post flop your only 16% to improve to a Fullhouse (if he has 10/J and flopped the Nuts) he's leading out most likely w A/K because he doesn't want you to hit a broadway if you have A/10 or A/J and are chasing a Gutshot or he already had the nuts.

When I analyze a hand post flop I start w the nuts and count backwards, then I compare my outs+% vs the 2 or 3 most likely hands possibly and compare like A/K vs A/Q you'd be 8% to hit a Q and fill up or if he had 10/J then 16% turn and 8% river. If he had a set of K your in a real bad spot.he bets out you'd need 5:1 pot odds to call which your not getting.
Hands that beat yours
1)10/J
2)AAA
3)KKK
4)QQQ
5)A/K
6) on the turn 999

I'd over bet post flop but less then the total of the flop+turn combined and lead out, if he calls or raises your beat. See the turn if you don't fill up the he bets you fold...you lose less and get the info you wanted basically. 99% of players only bet when they have something unless your deepstack in a big tourney, don't give a player too much credit most players aren't that good to be bluffing especially Live, however online is diff... also I find its better to lose less on an occasional bluff by folding and shrug it off, then to be a Hero and call when they do have the nuts and lose the maximum (over the long term)

*i don't play online, only live tourneys where you have a full minute to think it thru if nessecary

test

I lean towards a fold myself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jasonv12

Let me just start by saying this is a $215 buy in and pwnasaurus is a winner up there. If he is raising the river for VALUE, I'm 100% crushed.

The blocker bet was awkward, but it saved me from going broke. Could he have made a blocker bet raise bluff to take it? I kinda doubt it, right? He has to have a set of AA, KK, or QQ I think?

Would he turn AJ, A10, or KQ into a bluff?

Unfortunately I had no way of figuring this out until giving up 85% of my stack.

Help?

How could I have lost LESS. That's what I'm most interested in..

(24/64 before this, 32 make money and folding leaves me with like 8-9k behind...)

http://i58.tinypic.com/2yl7fbc.png

---

This is a tough one....because you're getting a great price, but how often are you ahead hmm AA KK QQ are all in his range....he is a nit so we can assume he doesn't turn JJ into a bluff. I mean the toughest spot is the river like why are you putting a blocking bet out? what hand that he's been betting that he decides to call instead of shove this river with. You said he's a nit so is he capable of triple barrel bluffing if you check? the blocking bet is tough because your betting for value in a way because you feel like he calls with a worst hand, but what is the worst hand? like I don't know what kind of hand that is going to be worst then your hand here that takes this line before the river from a nit. I mean I don't know him and wasn't there but I say its a fold.

Wow wait the blinds are 125/250 and you 4x'd it to 3 bet a 4x'd raise yeah easy check fold on river, and possibly on the turn now that I think about. I'd probably just min raise preflop then 4 bet or flat depending on his image based on his flat. i think your biggest error was the sizing preflop. Like most pros aren't going to 3 bet a 4x raiser wide. I think min raising is fine because with todays meta game in poker especially higher levels ppl are folding to min raises and do 3 bet them wider where you can 4 bet or flat there and play post flop. then after the flop I'd check call.....the turn check call....the river check/call or fold depending on what i think the player is capable of doing....heck i could check raise the flop if he has weaker aces in is 3 betting range. but yea wit the 4x'd raise his hand is basically face up as AA or KK so the turn is a spot you could fold for that reason but yea its an easy check fold the river because his range is so tight like I think the worst he would 3 bet a 4x'd raise is AKs

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fabolous987

This is a tough one....because you're getting a great price, but how often are you ahead hmm AA KK QQ are all in his range....he is a nit so we can assume he doesn't turn JJ into a bluff. I mean the toughest spot is the river like why are you putting a blocking bet out? what hand that he's been betting that he decides to call instead of shove this river with. You said he's a nit so is he capable of triple barrel bluffing if you check? the blocking bet is tough because your betting for value in a way because you feel like he calls with a worst hand, but what is the worst hand? like I don't know what kind of hand that is going to be worst then your hand here that takes this line before the river from a nit. I mean I don't know him and wasn't there but I say its a fold.

Wow wait the blinds are 125/250 and you 4x'd it to 3 bet a 4x'd raise yeah easy check fold on river, and possibly on the turn now that I think about. I'd probably just min raise preflop then 4 bet or flat depending on his image based on his flat. i think your biggest error was the sizing preflop. Like most pros aren't going to 3 bet a 4x raiser wide. I think min raising is fine because with todays meta game in poker especially higher levels ppl are folding to min raises and do 3 bet them wider where you can 4 bet or flat there and play post flop. then after the flop I'd check call.....the turn check call....the river check/call or fold depending on what i think the player is capable of doing....heck i could check raise the flop if he has weaker aces in is 3 betting range. but yea wit the 4x'd raise his hand is basically face up as AA or KK so the turn is a spot you could fold for that reason but yea its an easy check fold the river because his range is so tight like I think the worst he would 3 bet a 4x'd raise is AKs

---

That is a tuff one it would have been hard for me to fold , I would have to try and see that bluff,but I think you made right choice by folding cause he could have also J 10 for a straight.

I would have check raised him on the flop when you hit two pair. Checking every time and then just calling is showing a weakness (in my eyes). Letting him know you have a solid hand...or are chasing a solid hand. Establish that you have him beat from the get go