Should I fold this preflop and not get into it with the bigger stack and wait.

What do you think I should do with this hand. Did I just get unlucky or should I fold this preflop and wait to get into it with the smaller stacks instead of the bigger stack????

Game ID: 240128321 100/200 $3 Regular 9-Max, Table 1 (Hold'em)
Seat 4 is the button
Seat 1: TooDrunkToMuck (5415).
Seat 4: StlRounder314 (4325).
Seat 5: AFishInTheSea (1740).
Seat 8: 5sebas (2020).
Player AFishInTheSea has small blind (100)
Player 5sebas has big blind (200)
Player AFishInTheSea received a card.
Player AFishInTheSea received a card.
Player 5sebas received a card.
Player 5sebas received a card.
Player TooDrunkToMuck received a card.
Player TooDrunkToMuck received a card.
Player StlRounder314 received card: [Ad]
Player StlRounder314 received card: [Kc]
Player TooDrunkToMuck raises (500)
Player StlRounder314 raises (1000)
Player AFishInTheSea folds
Player 5sebas folds
Player TooDrunkToMuck calls (500)
*** FLOP ***: [6h Ac 10h]
Player TooDrunkToMuck checks
Player StlRounder314 bets (2000)
Player TooDrunkToMuck allin (4415)
Player StlRounder314 allin (1325)
Uncalled bet (1090) returned to TooDrunkToMuck
*** TURN ***: [6h Ac 10h] [7h]
*** RIVER ***: [6h Ac 10h 7h] [As]
------ Summary ------
Pot: 8950. Rake 0
Board: [6h Ac 10h 7h As]
*Player TooDrunkToMuck shows: Full House (10/A) [10c 10d]. Bets: 4325. Collects: 8950. Wins: 4625.
Player StlRounder314 shows: Three Of Kind of As [Ad Kc]. Bets: 4325. Collects: 0. Loses: 4325.
Player AFishInTheSea does not show cards.Bets: 100. Collects: 0. Loses: 100.
Player 5sebas does not show cards.Bets: 200. Collects: 0. Loses: 200.
Game ended at: 2014/1/7 13:59

Once you get to that flop nothing much you can do there - he's gonna push after you bet no matter what, and unless you really think he flopped 2 pair or better, it's a tough laydown.

No matter what you did here this hand, you was destined to lose its jus that simple, sad to say but true!! Once seeing the flop like rivdee said its tough laydown!!

That's a tough go, you cant really put him on anything big and he was going to push you or bet big if you check. Sometimes its just not meant to be. With so many people playing marginal hands that's a tough laydown.

Im not so sure a fold after he check raises isn't out of order here. Depending on how well you know the player, it may seem obvious, I guess that's one reason to use trackers - you would see how often he makes this move with a set. This is one reason while I detest AK, especially late in a tourney if you have a good size stack. If you were near the bubble then I would never confront a big stack with AK after they raise preflop...I might have folded to his check raise, just not worth it....but if its early or already after the bubble then you were right on target.

the answer lies in this statement

If you were the villain here, would you make the same moves throughout with a hand like AQ? The answer better be no because the story doesn't make sense. He either has complete air (which is a tuff buy considering his stack size UNLESS you notice he has been bluffing all day) or a monster (at least tied with your hand, and god help you if he has AK hearts here). The only other hand besides a set that would make sense would be KQ or QJ hearts, and even then you may want to consider folding because the bubble is at stake.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by detroitjunkie

Im not so sure a fold after he check raises isn't out of order here. Depending on how well you know the player, it may seem obvious, I guess that's one reason to use trackers - you would see how often he makes this move with a set. This is one reason while I detest AK, especially late in a tourney if you have a good size stack. If you were near the bubble then I would never confront a big stack with AK after they raise preflop...I might have folded to his check raise, just not worth it....but if its early or already after the bubble then you were right on target.

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But here's the problem with the entire play - he only has 1300 behind him; he HAS to call to win the 7700 in the pot. That's why the size of the bets here made this problematic, he priced himself in.

maybe - but you still have a chance of making the cut with 1325 left and another has only 1740, and another 2020, blinds werent cheap but not a killer for a round of hands you may dbl up on. That being said, the bet of 2000 was a little steep here, if you bet 1200-1500 you get the same result from the villain - AI. Then you still have a decent size stack left to fold.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by detroitjunkie

maybe - but you still have a chance of making the cut with 1325 left and another has only 1740, and another 2020, blinds werent cheap but not a killer for a round of hands you may dbl up on. That being said, the bet of 2000 was a little steep here, if you bet 1200-1500 you get the same result from the villain - AI. Then you still have a decent size stack left to fold.

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And that makes all the difference in the world odds wise here.

maybe - but you still have a chance of making the cut with 1325 left and another has only 1740, and another 2020, blinds werent cheap but not a killer for a round of hands you may dbl up on. That being said, the bet of 2000 was a little steep here, if you bet 1200-1500 you get the same result from the villain - AI. Then you still have a decent size stack left to fold.

Now if your only motive is to win outright, then it was the right play. But I am a long-term person, any cash is a good cash.

Its about correct decisions. At this level of play your going to make way more continuing to play this hand over time. You played it correct. He caught his card this time. You did fine and its just one of those things you can't avoid based on the level of play at this stage of play. Some times over thinking this stuff can effect your game. Just keep playing it like this and you will come out ahead at this level. In a few hours after another tournament or two you wont think to much about it, and you shouldn't. He caught it and got lucky thats all there is to it.

Well in defense of the villain, he had the better hand to start with, so in effect our hero got unlucky here, the villain did not get lucky. But I am a "luck" snob, most people don't see it this way

Quote:

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Originally Posted by detroitjunkie

Well in defense of the villain, he had the better hand to start with, so in effect our hero got unlucky here, the villain did not get lucky. But I am a "luck" snob, most people don't see it this way

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Lolz thats another way to look at it I guess but usually when someone comes from behind with a worse hand, people say they are lucky. Being unlucky is a direct result of someone elses luck lolz

it's hard to lay that hand down, after the flop, just unlucky. good luck next time hun :)

Thanks for everyone's insight and I like the debates :D.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by detroitjunkie

the answer lies in this statement

If you were the villain here, would you make the same moves throughout with a hand like AQ? The answer better be no because the story doesn't make sense. He either has complete air (which is a tuff buy considering his stack size UNLESS you notice he has been bluffing all day) or a monster (at least tied with your hand, and god help you if he has AK hearts here). The only other hand besides a set that would make sense would be KQ or QJ hearts, and even then you may want to consider folding because the bubble is at stake.

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Yes - the preflop action tells you that he either has an ace or a moderate pair. The check-raise on the flop should indicate that he hit a set or his ace-kicker. With what you have left in your stack, you still have odds to call with the bigger kicker, hoping to pair it and outrun him, but if you were close to the bubble, the chance to catch a cash might have given you value for folding after his check-raise.

very tough position to be in!! but u cant wait for much better then AK. and it wasnt a big raise!! i might have re-raised him, hoping he would fold the AT.

generally here I, so close to bubble and my hatred for AK, I would have just called his raise preflop and bet/folded on the flop when he check raised, this way your flop bet would have been lower leaving you a good stack to fold with and try to cash

Quote:

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Originally Posted by detroitjunkie

maybe - but you still have a chance of making the cut with 1325 left and another has only 1740, and another 2020, blinds werent cheap but not a killer for a round of hands you may dbl up on. That being said, the bet of 2000 was a little steep here, if you bet 1200-1500 you get the same result from the villain - AI. Then you still have a decent size stack left to fold.

Now if your only motive is to win outright, then it was the right play. But I am a long-term person, any cash is a good cash.

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"I Agree any cash is good cash . Fold."
-GodzAmongKingz