Limping with less than 10BB?

[MovingFlea]

I've seen this play quite a bit on certain PO FR's. I rarely do it myself, so I was wondering what was the mentality behind this sort of play. Maybe some experts on the limp play can chime in.

When shorstacked I tend to move all in at this point because I can increase my stack by more than 10% if I simply pick up the blinds. Only a monster hand or a monster stack can call 10BB pre flop. If I get called well, at least, I will have a hand that I thought was good to begin with, and I can double up.

I'm sure I'm missing something. Perhaps the reason this play exists is because its a psychological thing, it will keep aggressive players from raising with rags, and it also protects your investment, since you know only a monster can raise you since your liable to put them all in. Thus you can safely fold.

Maybe if you get a calling train, and hit the flop. Someone will pay you off.

The thing I don't get is, why would you waste more than 10% of your precious stack on a hand you don't want to get all in pre-flop. Your only going to see a precious few more hands. When you finally do pick up a great hand you will have less chips to double up with.

Then I thought. Well maybe this is a form of trap. Limp in with AA-JJ. AK-AJ. Get weaker hands to see the flop, and get paid off. I suppose the worst thing that can happen is you let K2 see a flop for free to suck out on your pocket Queens. No biggie right? Because another monster hand is probably waiting around the corner.

[chrisdione]

I do not agree with limping in with less than 10bb. If you gonna play the hand then just put it all in and let the cards fall where they may. Most pros would shove too. Not sure why you wouldn't.

[babydrago9]

The main reason everybody does this on PO FR is because of the really fast levels and so such big blinds at relatively early stages. You'll rarely see this play at around 25 players still left, but once it gets to around 14 players just want to see cheap flops with not the strongest hands like kj or q10s or something; as they dont want to fold but dont want to shove when they can make the bubble. e.g. in lots of carbon tourneys at 15 players left blinds can be 250/500, and so a player with 5k will just limp with kj as there'll be others with 2k who they want to surpass to get to the bubble.

[WILD]

The main reason everybody does this on PO FR is because of the really fast levels and so such big blinds at relatively early stages. You'll rarely see this play at around 25 players still left, but once it gets to around 14 players just want to see cheap flops with not the strongest hands like kj or q10s or something; as they dont want to fold but dont want to shove when they can make the bubble. e.g. in lots of carbon tourneys at 15 players left blinds can be 250/500, and so a player with 5k will just limp with kj as there'll be others with 2k who they want to surpass to get to the bubble.

Gotta agree with this. It normally doesn't make sense to limp in when you're already short stacked but in a turbo tournament, it's quite common. Like the po freerolls, usually as you start to get near the final table, a big majority of everyone left is short stacked having only between 10 and 15 big blinds left.

[lorenz0wns]

generally people limp because they are passive.

[MovingFlea]

Yes, I've seen it happen more often near the bubble, like you people say. Then once the bubble bursts it just becomes a nightmarish shit throwing contest.

Passive play is dumb though, especially near the bubble. The money is top heavy, and you have to shoot for the moon in order to get the highest ROI possible. I could understand maybe trying to fold your way to a higher pay spot maybe in a larger tournament like the WSOP if your itching for cash. Otherwise it doesn't make sense.

[lorenz0wns]

Yes, I've seen it happen more often near the bubble, like you people say. Then once the bubble bursts it just becomes a nightmarish shit throwing contest.

Passive play is dumb though, especially near the bubble. The money is top heavy, and you have to shoot for the moon in order to get the highest ROI possible. I could understand maybe trying to fold your way to a higher pay spot maybe in a larger tournament like the WSOP if your itching for cash. Otherwise it doesn't make sense.

You just have to understand that it's a freeroll so generally the plays won't be standard.

[TheHaversham]

While I agree with the reasoning stated above as to WHY certain players do this often, it's still rarely the "correct" play. However, for every hand and every play there is a situation. If I have a tight image at a table where I have not limped thus far and I suddenly do limp in early position with a very short stack (<15BBs), most keen players will put me on a fairly strong hand. Of course, for it to work with consistency, I also have to show the patience to also limp those big strong pre-flop hands in the same situation.

If you only ever limp short-stacked with AK & KK+, then there is actually room to pull off a kind of open-limp bluff with a hand like 45s, a small pair, a suited A, or even JTs. For it to work, however, you really need a few conditions in place. Look to the left to make sure there aren't any uber-aggro big-stacks licking their chops looking to KO the entire table. Also make sure there aren't any short stacks for which your limp might induce a chip-grab shove. What you're looking to have happen is to have as many other limpers fall in line behind you as possible, which is what you need to speculate with those kinds of hands.

[lorenz0wns]

While I agree with the reasoning stated above as to WHY certain players do this often, it's still rarely the "correct" play. However, for every hand and every play there is a situation. If I have a tight image at a table where I have not limped thus far and I suddenly do limp in early position with a very short stack (<15BBs), most keen players will put me on a fairly strong hand. Of course, for it to work with consistency, I also have to show the patience to also limp those big strong pre-flop hands in the same situation.

If you only ever limp short-stacked with AK & KK+, then there is actually room to pull off a kind of open-limp bluff with a hand like 45s, a small pair, a suited A, or even JTs. For it to work, however, you really need a few conditions in place. Look to the left to make sure there aren't any uber-aggro big-stacks licking their chops looking to KO the entire table. Also make sure there aren't any short stacks for which your limp might induce a chip-grab shove. What you're looking to have happen is to have as many other limpers fall in line behind you as possible, which is what you need to speculate with those kinds of hands.

imo it doesn't matter what image u have on the table because generally most ppl in a freeroll don't care/pay attention.

[Pray4Spades]

Because most players in PO freerolls are fish, they will limp call a shove with 10 bb with queen high.